back into the mud pit


So really I have the best intentions about not posting for a while except things keep dragging me in that really need to sort of spread across the net.

Me I have never understood truly wealthy people who need to be more wealthy. I mean, really, when you are the 19th most wealthy person in the world, do you really need more money? It seems like at some point the pursuit of wealth just becomes meaningless and someone would turn his or her glass eyed stare to the mirror and think, Wow, I am pretty damn rich, I wonder what someone as rich as me could do good in this world with all this damn money?

Some people do do that. And. Some people do not.




0 Responses to back into the mud pit

  1. forkboy1965

    Jon Stewart exposed one of these so-called grass roots organizations for what it really was: run by a PR firm in DC, whose clients were healthcare insurance firms.

    But this isn’t what really pisses me off. What pisses me off is that neither the Democratic National Committee or the White House are going after the lies, the fake outrage or the the real outrage that is being spewed by folks who are nothing more than saps and shills for Big Business, to whom their Party swears total and complete allegiance.

    It takes folks like Stewart and Colbert (and now this piece from the MSM) to bring it to the attention of folks. Of course, in many ways it is irrelevant to opening the eyes of these fools because they wouldn’t be caught dead watching CNN, MSNBC, Colbert or Stewart. Nor would they be caught dead trying to discover what are the facts, when it can instead be given to them by their party’s corporate overlords.

    Lastly, I read a comment on another site whereby the commentator asked how it is those so-called Christians in the Republican Party (and by “in” the Party I mean elected representatives) can boldly lie, knowing they are lying (if only to fire up the base), while knowing they are violating on of the Ten Commandments. Doesn’t sound very fucking Christian to me.

    Then again, I haven’t seen much of Christian behaviour from right-wing Christians in many, many years.

  2. max

    How do you suggest the White House or the Democratic National Committee “go after” these people?

  3. forkboy1965

    By providing like-minded Democrats with the ammunition needed to do battle with these idiots who appear at town meetings.

    The DNC & WH need to get the information out there and find ways to motivate folks to attend town hall meetings whereby they can counter this lunatic fringe.

    And I don’t mean with shouting, but with debate. With facts. Something the Republicans are lacking on both counts.

  4. max

    They are there specifically to disrupt debate and stop the dissemination of facts, Fork. Their entire purpose is to disrupt discourse and discussion and to derail a democratic forum. You cannot combat that with facts or discussion within the forum itself, that simply adds to the chaos and feeds the disruption.

  5. forkboy1965

    I don’t see why legions cannot be mobilized who want to see healthcare reform (or, at the very least, a real debate about such). Get them to these meetings. Fill the town hall meetings in much the same way the Republicans have.

    It’s dishonest, in a way. Sure. But I think the article to which you have linked (in your fascist blog) shows quite clearly that the only way to fight the slippery slope is to quite literally fight back with the same practices. To disrupt the disruptions, so to speak.

    If nothing else, at least the politicians will see that there are those who do believe in reform and who no longer care to see the debate hijacked by one side of the debate.

  6. max

    So what you want is screaming matches in town hall forums between mass groups of people bussed in to shout [and, in some cases shoot] at each other? That is not democracy or in any way or form discourse, or the dissemination of ideas, or mediation. Retaliation is a natural response to attack. But this is not a football game and you have to think about it and know, this is a very strategic attack. And feeding into it with a natural response will only support the strategist who thought this out pretty hard in advance. Be smarter than the strategist. Respond with thought, not anger. What is the intended result of this assault? What are five pre-thought out reactions and counter reactions? What are ten? Fifteen? Twenty? This is chess, Fork. Do not react. Think.

  7. forkboy1965

    I’m not suggesting the DNC bus-in folks to shout back or shout down those expressing contrary views, but bring them in so that they too can ask questions, to help steer the meetings into more productive directions and perhaps, just perhaps, some of those on the right who have these outlandish ideas might, just might, hear information that will help diminish their irrational fears of what healthcare reform means. Ultimately, if one wants to defeat their strategy one must take away their opportunities to utilize said strategy. The only way this will happen, at least in town hall meeting situations, is to fill the places with those to the Left. It’s just as important so that the congressmen/women see that not everyone attending believes healthcare reform is dangerous. They must see our numbers. They must know we are out there and that we want and expect change. Sitting at home while the Right runs amok will not lead us to success.

    I’m not saying it will work, but I would like to see my Party do more to get the message out there and clearly the lunatic fringe of the right has been mobilized and I strongly believe our side must do the same thing.

  8. max

    I understand what you are saying. I just do not think “plants” is the way to go. That would be just as questionable and problematic as the current anti health care plants being bused in by insurance company funded “grass roots” organizations.

    A town hall meeting in Washington State just faced down insurance company plants. But I do not know many places that can do this because I do not know many places outside Washington State that have the level of civil participation and involvement in government that Washington State does. ICE has been operating in WS, WTO took place in WS, there have been a lot of situations in WS that forced citizenry awareness and participation and also conditioned WS residents to situations involving facing off hostile and difficult opposition. That is not the case in most of the country, where most people faced with screaming rabid people have no idea how to react and simply freeze.

  9. forkboy1965

    Forgive me if I wasn’t as clear as I should have been. By busing-in I didn’t mean to imply that the DNC should bring in folks from outside the constituency, but to bus-in those who: (a) belong there, because they live in the relevant district, and (b) get them organized, etc.

    For me this has been a glaring weakness in the Democratic Party (both the leaders of such as well as the members). We are content to vote for our candidates. We are content to voice our opinions, but we seem to rarely stray from our homes to defend our positions or push for our platforms. The Republicans have been far better about this sort of thing and I firmly believe that is why they have managed to accomplish so much over the past 30 or so years.

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